Gamerscore Blog : Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:10 PM by CPaladino

Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Tony was out sick, but the rest of us were here delivering thoughtful content.

No that's not a joke. It's a little different than what we usually deliver to your ears, feedback wanted!

AUDIO podcasts - available via the RSS feed, or the iTunes feed
VIDEO podcasts - available via the RSS feed

This week Nelson, Sara, Chris, and John talk about:

NEW Intro/Outro Music - Phylum Sinter
Question of the Week - What game do you still play, KNOWING you won't get any more achievement points?
Upcoming Games - Bully, Army of Two, Rocketmen: Axis of Evil
Achievement Points - Fun or Frenzy?
You Are Not a "Real" Gamer - The Gamer's Caste System
Email us Questions/Comments

Filed Under: Xbox 360, Games for Windows, John Porcaro, Sara Nicholson, Chris Paladino, Blogcast : Official Xbox 360 and Games for Windows Community Podcast, Nelson Rodriguez

Comments

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:49 PM by Steve519

pretty good show this week.

As for what I think makes you a gamer, I just ask do you play games, if they respond yes, then to me they are a gamer. John you play games, you have a good achievement score, I'm not sure how anyone can say your not a real gamer.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:10 PM by John Porcaro

@Steve519. Aww, thanks. My point exactly. :)

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:25 AM by quezcotl

Good achivment score?

Look at me quezcotl,I finish every game on hard with ease, for ex playing DMC4 now on Dante must die,but I cant reach more then around 25-30k games are too expensive.

Now if my job was working for MS or games I would probably be up at 50k because I dont have the time or the money to play *** games for achivments.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:18 AM by John in S.Florida

You folks need to counter the HD-DVD loss..and sofar I haven't heard anything that I would consider a real counter. Circuit City is offering a trade-in program and folks are able to get PS3 at discount. This is going to hurt.

http://gizmodo.com/364473/circuit-citys-hd-dvd-for-blu+ray-trade+in-confirmed-by-sources-readers

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:21 AM by DevsterC

Good show. It was a little odd to hear something from the _GAMERSCORE_ blog kinda bringing forth one of the more unfortunate parts of gamerscore, but it was a pretty positive and neat discussion.

As Nelson mentioned with the collecting mentality, when Achievements become a labourious, they're no longer rewards, they are chores. When Achievements start to cater to the hardcore audience (e.g. 10,000 kills, and now 10001 kills, etc), and everyone else looks at those as unassailable rather than goals, the developers have done (IMHO) a disservice to the gamers. It's really easy to get caught up in the chase - look at the response to the Old Spice challenges at 360v. I know I look at my friends list and say "geez, I wouldn't mind catching so-and-so". We're a competitive species.

Tangent 1: Two examples of how rewarding the gamer has been done well - CoD4: easy to understand single player achievements, great prestige/perk system in multiplayer that still allows people to brag about what they've done in game and their skillz. #2 is Orange Box - many many achievements, many easily achieveable, and a LOT of info to the users on how to attain them, how many more they need to get for the collection-style ones (no websites searches), and so on. One might wonder how much their "UI" (for lack of a better term) contributed to their overall success.

Tangent 2: Completing CoD2 on veteran remains one of my proudest achievements. When I see someone on my friends list or my recently played list who has that, there is an instant "they're a good gamer" or "that's my kind of gamer" respect that crops up.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:46 AM by PathBeast

Although I'm not at 10K + points, I still enjoy gaming on the 360 and the Wii. I recently put 60 hours into Blue Dragon, and I got 75 points. As far as achievement points, I'd like to see a split for working through the campaign and then additional points for all the niche side missions. In addition... games cost money. So I don't buy a bunch of games, I have to pick and choose. Mortgage, car repairs, and diapers are a little more important than games.

As far as HD standard movie downloads... with a 20 gig hard drive on my 360, I don't have enough room to download a high def movie. So it has become a moot point for me. Although I actually don't watch hardly any movies because I'd rather be gaming... despite my low gamerscore...

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:53 AM by AriesDog

Great show. Sometimes we like those long discussions.

Overall achievement points is just another tool for people to know who they're playing online. It's a quick thumbnail profile of who you're playing. Low score means they're probably new to the community. A score close to your's means you're probably at the same level. Crazy high scores mean that this is a person who's seriously, maybe too so, into this.

To judge someone soley on the gamerscore is silly. Some people have more money and time. Some bought the system on day one while others just got it. Some people have maxed out the points they play on the one game they obsessively play every day. Some people, like me, still play a lot of original Xbox games (currently Ninja Gaiden) which don't give any points.

Where achievements are fun for everybody, even Nelson, is when you match individual games that you and your friends are all playing at the time.

SIDENOTE: Porcaro, the guy who sent you that voice message sounded like Beavis and Butt-head. I suspect I know which frequent poster here it is too.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:06 PM by AriesDog

In defense of Sara. I know everybody thinks Call of Duty, Halo 3, Gears of War, etc. are the games we should play. all the time. And do. But like movies, it's good to mix it up a bit. When you're feeling like playing something light and fun, dare I say "Nintendo-ish," I see nothing wrong with playing one of the kiddie platformers. Especially if you enjoyed the movie, then it's another level of fun. I had a good time with Pirates of the Caribbean, Meet the Robinsons and Kameo.

Also cool to hear Sara's a horror fan. If you get a chance, I highly recommend the DVD of the BBC miniseries "Jekyll."

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:38 PM by soldier x25

I have close to 100,000 gamerscore. I'm a gamer..I also consider a little girl playing a dogs game on her DS a gamer. In conclusion I think gamerscore is nothing without friends to compete against.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:50 PM by DevsterC

@ AriesDog - "Low score means they're probably new to the community."

I don't know about that; they may just have a limited palette. I have a guy on my friends list with 2800GS who I only ever see playing Halo2, Halo3 (1000/1000), CoD4 and GoW (1190/1250) - hours and hours at just those games... He's been on Live for a good while... Sometimes you just get in a comfort zone and you're fine staying there.

also "I know everybody thinks Call of Duty, Halo 3, Gears of War, etc. are the games we should play. "

Bleah, Halo3? Couldn't enjoy Halo1, couldn't enjoy Halo3 Beta... it's just not a series for me. <shrug> Maybe Halo Wars will be good for me. Tastes differ - there's no game we "should play"; that leads to the orthodoxy/elitism mentioned in the 'cast. I know a number of folks who don't like the Civilization series, for example - but I would submit that as one of those "everyone should try" games.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:55 PM by MthdDirector

For me, achievements are just a nice "punctuation" when I complete a certain chapter or activity in a game -- nothing more. I don't look at my gamerscore as a measure of progress or success.

I'm far FAR more interested in a compelling storyline, or amazing gameplay, than any achievements I might pick up along the way. If I pick up Bioshock again, it won't be to get a perfect 1000 -- it will be to explore experiences with the game that I didn't have before -- play the game in a new/different way.

If getting acheivements complements that experience, then all the better.

In my opinion, there are far to many great games for the 360, to be focused exclusively on gamerscore -- or, to put it another way, getting achievements isn't the end-all for gaming on the 360. Just my 2 cents! I'm sure other people may feel differently :)

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:04 PM by e house

Best show yet . . . i loved how the conversation moved around the room. Keep up the good work.

I'm breaking 10K this week!

All labels are LAME. Gamer. Jock. Slut. Nerd. Whatever.

And on the gamerscore tip . . . i'm definitely motivated by achievement points . . . but quantity doesn't reflect anything but the amount of time someone has to play games. I'm not sure about the rest of the crew, but i'm pretty sure Nelson has a kid . . . and so do I. Great. Now, if my wife and I have another baby, will i be a better father than Nelson? Technically my "babyscore" will be double his, but that doesn't mean i'm better at parenting than he is. (Nelson, i'm sure you're great . . . )

Alright . . . that's all i got. Looking forward to next weeks episode.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:05 PM by AriesDog

soldier x25, DevsterC , MthdDirector all brought up points I agree with.

Whuuu?! Intelligent discussion in a comments thread?! It's a little early for April Fool's. Quick! Someone post something off-topic to get us back on track!

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:10 PM by e house

Did I just coin the phrase, "babyscore"?

I'll never ask "How many kids do you have?" again. I'll simply ask, "So, what's your babyscore?"

Brilliant.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:34 PM by John Porcaro

Awesome discussion, I'm going to print it out and stick in on my fridge. I'm so proud of you all...

@e house: My babyscore is four (though I admit all of it was earned through co-op multiplayer), though my wife and I did the equivalent of gamerscore-padding by doing foster care for several years, so I could actually say that I have a babyscore of 36 (true story).

@AriesDog: Xbox 360 RUUUUUUULLLLLLLEEEEEEZZZZZ!!!!!

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:42 PM by Camaroguy579

I actually just made a post on my blog about the gamerscore discussion.
You guys had a great discussion on the whole thing for sure.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:20 PM by Goon360

Im very! close to hitting the 50k Gamerscore mark. To me, achievements are alot of things.
I see them as in game goals, almost like a meta game of sorts. I also like to present them as PROOF of in game accomplishments ( think trophies). For multiplayer games, I always tend to hurry and collect as many online achievements as I can, so once I do have them , I can sit back and just play the game for fun...without having to worry about what I need to be doing in this game session to earn this certain achievement.

My goal is to always collect around 50% of the achievements with every game I play( they're addicting! and rewarding IMO). ..Now with the Gamerscore associated with that achievement, I really dont care what the value is... as I never really try to unlock achievements to boost my score. I'd much rather unlock an exclusive gamerpicture or an Uber weapon...

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:11 PM by CPaladino

Awesome discussion(s) - keep 'em coming.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:55 PM by DevsterC

@e house -
I have a babyscore of 1 (though she's just 6 1/2 months). At what point does one start losing babyscore and gaining kidscore? :-)

@Goon360 - I know what you mean about the %... On 360voice I have a 50% complete badge, meaning of my possible gamerscore, I've picked up at least 50% (actually, I'm around 70%, but I don't think I'll hit that 75% badge). It'll be a point of pride to keep it at that level, to show I get engaged in the games I play but am not fanatical. I also agree that achievements that have byproducts are underutilized - gamer pics, unlocked content, somethin'. But a reward for a reward is pretty meta.

I also like with your comment about "PROOF" - I think the PA guys talked about that one time when a reviewer had talked down Enchanted Arms and they basically implied he only stuck out the tutorial part... Gamers who talk the talk (or, in the case of xbox live, sing the talk) finally have a way to back up their words - it's a good way to show those who are frontin' (note: I'll rely on Paladino's innate hip-hop-o-meter to let me know if the kids are still using that term).

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Friday, March 07, 2008 6:39 AM by c.todd [phylum sinter]

This one is actually my favorite episode so far, great stuff [even past the "kibosh" moment].

I feel that though the gamerscore thing is partially what i gauge 'gamer'-ness by, it really comes down to what does one self-identify as? What was mentioned about the facebook profiles, how if you are given only a few slots - would you choose to put gamer down as one of them? - that defines what a gamer is.

It was near tearjerking (ok, maybe it's past my bedtime) to hear about how you can feel it when somebody is in their element, and quote of the show: "I don't want a guy who eats the most burgers to cook me a burger". That sums it up right there, and that's really how inspired decisions can be gauged -- if the people who really follow their hearts get into the position to really show their fervor publicly.

About the ever-slipping-into-the-mainstream-ness of gaming: I don't think that "gamer" will ever completely slip from the identity lexicon, but sure as people become more familiar with games and casual games come into normalcy we will find less people calling themselves outright gamers. I know some people now that are beginning to play games -- mostly with the introduction of the wii -- that would never consider it previously. There's always going to be that core element though, and i know that even if gaming fades from MTV or any other mass-media outlet it will remain a very strong presence in plenty of lives.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Friday, March 07, 2008 3:12 PM by quezcotl

Bababoey.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Friday, March 07, 2008 6:54 PM by CapnJunkie

Hey gang, I really liked this show. Great to hear the conversation when it has enough time for you all to "get into it".

On a note in regards to gamerscore, I like the new feature that mygamercard.net has added. You can now check out your score attained in a game based on how it relates to others' attained scores. Check yourself out on a curve as it is described on their homepage. I don't think it compares scores with the entire community, but just those members of mygamercard.net.

I now know that my CSI achievements aren't really that impressive (not that I needed that clue), but my 1 achievement in Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06 is an 131.27% Overachievement when compared to the pack.

Also, I can feel shame about my 96.88% Underachievement on GOW... looks like I have some work to do.

Anyway, thought you might be interested in that use of gamerscore.

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:21 PM by TXPaladin

MyGamerCard.Net and 360Voice.Com are great sites, but only those that sign up are counted. I appear to be in the masses of those under 10k and in the minority of listeners here. Since I'm just reach 2500, I'm only a quarter of a real gamer it seems. :| Just make sure nobody raises the bar or will never become real gamers then.

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About CPaladino

Chris was born in the Bronx in 1976, but grew up in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. After graduating from college he worked as a computer programmer for several years, and during that time he started a podcast - The DreamStation.cc Video Game Show. The show caught the eye of the Xbox Community Team, and Chris moved to Seattle with his wife Heather to pursue his passion for shaping the future of the video game industry.

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# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

# re: Gamerscore Blogcast - 052 - Achievements, and the Gamer Caste System

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